Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-5102537-20130801124135

I'd like to continue the discussion we started in the What If-thread here to keep the other one clean for new ideas.

ReganX wrote:

Fimber wrote: Since the prophecy is older than mankind or even life itself (according to the Vilia), Arthur's birth was predetermined and Nimueh obviously knew of the prophecy/destiny which also shows that Merlin's birth was only necessary because Arthur's birth causes Igraine's death which then causes the Great Purge and so on... Technically, the Vilia said that Merlin had great power and a future that was written before the dawn of time, and made no mention of Arthur. It's possible that Nimueh brought Arthur into the world before he was meant to be there and, if so, it could be why he and Merlin failed to achieve their alleged destiny.

That's true, there was no mention of Arthur. However, Merlin's destiny is bound to Arthur's destiny, and according to what was said about the prophecy by several characters, Merlin's destiny was to help Arthur become king and to help him unite the lands of Albion with magic being legal again.

Kilgharrah said that Merlin and Arthur are two sides of a coin and that without Merlin, Arthur will fail and there will be no Albion.

When Lochru said

"I have been haunted by this moment for many years... since long before you set foot on this Earth, Emrys, I have waited for its arrival with the sorrow in my heart. For even as Camelot flowers, so the seeds of her destruction are being sown. The prophets speak of Arthur's bane. You would do well to fear it, for it stalks him like a ghost in the night. Unless you act quickly, Emrys, even you cannot alter the never-ending circle of his... fate."

the mention of the  "never-ending circle of his fate", it indicates that everything that had happened already was predetermined. And Lochru saw the visions of Arthur long before Merlin was born, which actually shows that Merlin was born because of Arthur and Arthur was born because of Merlin's destiny/fate/prophecy. Since Merlin's future (not possible future) was set in stone long before mankind, Arthur was born the moment he was supposed to be born, otherwise a future couldn't have been written but only a possible outcome would have been speculated. We could even go so far to say that every little thing and person and creature and happening was predetermined and set in stone, from anyone's birth - creatures, animals, humans - to every little action and even thought. Therefore, Uther's birth was predertimed too, as well as Nimueh's actions and Igraine's death, and even the farmer next door and the maid in some hut with a dog and a chicken and the cat of any child and a fly flying around and everything - it all  played an important part because all of this led to the predetermined future that was set in stone.

Merlin couldn't have been born if Balinor and Hunith hadn't conceived him the very second they did. A few minutes later or any other/different decision, and Merlin wouldn't have come into existence but another child. Without going into detail, you know what I mean. From a biological side only, when considering that such things change in the body every few seconds... You know.

Same goes for everyone else. This raises the question if there is even such a thing as free will on the show.

It would have been different if not Merlin's future but only a particular point of time in his future was written since the dawn of time. That way one could argue that this particular thing/situation will happen somehow, only the way it will happen and the time inbetween is unknown and can be changed. That it can happen due to various possibilities along the way. But the future is not a particular point of time but Merlin's whole life. The moment he came into existence, every next nano second was his future, even within the mother's womb. Which applies to everyone.

For example, if the Vilia had said "Merlin will wander the streets of a future land as an old man", the time and happenings inbetween could have been multiple ones. He could have stayed in Ealdor and become a farmer or he could have gone to Mercia and become a singer or to Camelot and hide in some caves like Balinor or whatever, until he is an old man and wanders the streets... However, his whole future contains every single step of his, every thought, every action, every relationship.

If Arthur was meant to be born later, it would mean that Uther and Igraine would have conceived another child but not Arthur. It could have been a boy, they could have named him Arthur but it would have been a different person. And either way, Uther and Igraine would have needed magical help. If Uther had lost Igraine due to some other reason, he would have needed another mother for his child. Had it happened without magical help, it would not only be a different child but his mother would also not have died and the Great Purge wouldn't have taken place. Except if it was predetermined that Uther loses his wife (whoever) and starts the Great Purge anyway. But again, either way, it then would all be predertimened again - and then not only the Old Religion would still be behind this but also Nimueh would know of it.

And if THE Arthur we know would have come into existence anyway, only a at a later time, since he was conceived with magical help, it also would have happened either with Igraine or with another wife of Uther, which again would mean that Uther would have had a reason to start the Great Purge which requires Merlin's existence and which again would mean that the Great Purge was predetermined too. Even if it had happened with another king but not Uther, if Camelot had another ruler, the old king or another conqueror with a wife who would have been Arthurs parents, either way, the war on magic would have taken place by all means, otherwise Merlin's destiny would have been superflouse.

Knot in the brain? I have..... 