Talk:Vivienne

When in the series is it mentioned that Ygraine, and Vivienne are mentioned, because I don't remember the episode.M Bierhoff 03:00, October 18, 2011 (UTC)

I think you meant to say "sisters", but yes, that would be my question as well. Where/when is it stated within this show (not in one of the legends), that Vivienne is the sister of Ygraine, Agravaine and Tristan de Bois?

Noogard 20:52, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

The answer to that is never. I don't recall when it was said...and it shouldn't be on the page either

Anonymous

Given how little info there is on Vivienne and the false sister relationship being posited, I recommend that her page be locked.

Hello fellow Merlin fans,

I just edited the Vivienne biography page because we don't if Vivienne was a lady in waiting or not. This has never been mentioned in the show. Moreover, Morgause wasn't smuggled out of Camelot because of the Great Purge or Uther's hate for magic because Morgause is older than Arthur, therefore the ban of magic started quite a while after Morgause was born and smuggled out of Camelot.

We also don't know who exactly led Uther to believe that Morgause had died, plus we don't even know why (nor do we know why Morgause was smuggled out of Camelot. Logically, it can't have anything to do with the ban of magic/Uther's hate for magic). Please keep this mind when editing :-) Fimber (talk) 17:01, August 27, 2012 (UTC)

It is possible, actually, that Morgause was smuggled out of Camelot because of the Great Purge or Uther's hatred for magic because we don't know exactly when Gaius took her out of Camelot. We do, however, know that at some point in Morgana's life she met Morgause and vaguely has a sense of remembering her. According to psychologists, we actually develope our first memories between the age of 2 and 5. Now, assuming that Morgana's faint memory of Morgause was from when she was from around that same age range and that Arthur is no more than 5 years younger than Morgana, it could be inferred that Morgause was, in fact, smuggled out of Camelot because of the Great Purge or Uther's hatred for magic. If Morgause is 9 months older than Morgana, the smallest amount of age difference possible unless Morgana was born premature, this would age her to be younger than 6 years of age. While, admittedly, Gaius claims that Morgause was smuggle out "shortly after her birth", one cannot explain with any time-line why Morgana, younger than Morgause, would remember her if, in fact, she was smuggled out of Camelot shortly after her birth. It could also be that Vivienne or someone else foresaw the Great Purge and chose to protect the child. Theories aside, Fimber is right, we do not know why Morgause was smuggled from Camelot.

As for Vivienne being a lady-in-waiting to Ygraine, this is the case in the classical legends and was never confirmed in the show.

Please everyone remember: Wiki pages are for facts confirmed either by the show or those involved in the creation of the show. Talk pages and blog posts are the places for speculations and unconfirmed imformation. Thank you!(Blessed Be, WorshipperOfTheOldReligion Sybil 18:12, August 27, 2012 (UTC))

Hey Sybil,

Thanks for your response.

As for Morgana remembering Morgause, we don't know if she really rembered her. I wrote on someone else's blog that often, when people who are related meet each other but have never met before, they think that they have met because they subconsciously realise that they are related. Resemblences, smells, voices, mimics - it all can make you feel like having met that person. So we don't know if she really remembered Morgause or just felt that they are related because Morgause maybe reminded her of another relative (mother, uncle, grandparents...).

Regarding Morgause's age, Emilia Fox is ten years older than Bradley James, so she probably is almost eight to ten years older than Arthur on the show (my speculation). "Shortly after her birth" seems to me a quite clear point of time for her being smuggled out of Camelot. She was a baby and it happened years before the Great Purge (Uther had no problem with magic before Arthur's birth). However, I agree that maybe Vivienne had forseen the Great Purge. On the other hand, I wonder why she had a relationship with Uther later when she actually knew what would happen. She also didn't hide Morgana despite the possibility that Morgana had inhertited her powers, too (like Morgause). Maybe someone else had forseen the Great Purge. As you know, I've always assumed or speculated that the Great Purge was not only forseen but probably even initiated intentionally (remember our conversation about that? :-D ).

Anyway, we don't know for sure why she was smuggled out and what's the story around Vivienne/Morgause/Morgana/Uther. Shame, I find that very interesting. Fimber (talk) 19:14, August 27, 2012 (UTC)